The three most common go-to analogies for explaining the Trinity are water, an egg, and the sun. What we're trying to do here is to understand how you can have a tri-personal entity. I think that it is within human capacity to understand what the Bible reveals, or else there would not be any reason for the Bible to reveal it. Yet we look to the heavens and hold expectations of God. What I'm referring to is an analogy that you gave of the Trinity that came under attack from our friend Dr. James White. If you would like to get in on the discussion about this, join my Theology Discussion Group! And this model of thinking of God as a soul endowed with three sets of rational faculties each sufficient for personhood is such a model. Yet we look to the heavens and hold expectations of God. The phrase “light from light” is actually taken from the affirmation in the Nicene Creedwhere Jesus is said to be “God from God, Light from Light, true God from true God.” This was in direct response to the heresy of Arius, who taught that the Son was a lesser, created being. This is where most of the humanly devised analogies we use to represent the Trinity fall short. Dr. Craig: Well, exactly. Scripture affirms that God is eternal. The testimony of Scripture is that there is one God who is eternally present in three persons. Dr. Craig: Right, even, as I say, the Cerberus analogy, as helpful as it is, ultimately falls short in that regard. The shamrock analogy is perhaps better than the egg and apple analogies, although it shares the weakness of possibly dividing God into “parts.” Another common illustration of the Trinity involves the different states of matter (solid, liquid, and gas). God is eternally present in three persons: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Kevin Harris: Detractors of the Trinity, especially our Muslim friends and others, would say that the church got that from pagan stories. He was with God in the beginning.” The Word was both God, and with God. 3. So the doctrine of the Trinity is simply the attempt of the early fathers to make explicit what in scripture is implicit. Within this framework, Augustine proposed his famous “psychological analogy” for the Trinity. If you say when thinking about the substance of the triune God then you can think about the Trinity like Water, though each person may be different like Ice, Water, and Steam, they all share the same substance. And people are pretty quick to send these and say, “How do you respond to these?” Some we may not be aware of, but quite often when it's someone who is well-known we'll get word of it quickly, and we'll try to respond. What was that analogy that you gave in Florida, and what were his concerns? ), but it is not so complicated that no human being can understand it. So in this verse, there are two who are called YHWH: the Redeemer and the King of Israel. “In the beginning was the Word, the Word was with God, and the Word was God. [4] So when the New Testament uses the word “mystery” it's not using it in the sense of truths that are above reason or logically incomprehensible. In attempt to simplify, these comparisons complicate. This analogy denies the unity of the God-head. Since the doctrine of the trinity is often built up as something so complicated that no mere mortal could ever understand any aspect of, we scramble desperately for a way to relay this divine truth to new Christians. Perhaps you’ve heard the analogy that the Trinity is like H 2 O (the molecular symbol for water). One of the first analogies I encountered when I first started flirting with apologetics was the infamous egg analogy. But God does not take on different modes. But Scripture is under-determinative with respect to how you understand eternity. That's very clear when you read how the word is used in the New Testament. Direct- These analogies not only do il- ing, and Sending is appropri- lustrate the Trinity, So what ate to the position of the does it infer, But they serve as Father, after all human Father- illustrations for this Doctrine. Stay on top of the information you need to navigate the admissions process amid the COVID-19 pandemic. The Bible teaches three truths: 1 – there is one God. So a triangle may not be an analogy to the trinity, but an analogy to the coherence of three in one. The reason I feel uncomfortable with the Cerberus story is not because it isn't helpful in understanding the question of how you can have a tri-personal entity. And I think the Cerberus story can help us to make some advance in understanding that if we invest these three canine minds with self-consciousness and hence personhood. And that is obviously something that makes one very uncomfortable. Dr. Craig: Well, I would say that's silly. It may be counter-intuitive. (See 3.2 belowand section 3.1of thesupplementary document on unitarianism.) A video by Tekton Apologetics on Youtube called “Try-outs for the Trinity” suggest this as the best analogy but also admits reasons to why it isn’t perfect, as no perfect analogy exists. The Trinity underscores the importance of relationships. John empowers this point toward the end of his prologue as he calls Jesus (v. 18) “…the only begotten God, in the bosom of the Father…” So we see two distinct persons within the one God. I mean, obviously God isn't a doctrine. So how can we relay this point? It is not really correct to say that the three Persons of the Trinity are ‘parts’ of God—see also Is God ‘simple’? And in the end I reject the analogy of Cerberus. How are we to handle various attempts at illustrations and analogies of this crucial doctrine? Another common analogy is using the idea of H 2 O: these molecules form one substance, water. One will construe God's attributes in such a way as to glorify and magnify God as the greatest conceivable being. Explain from Scripture. Dr. Craig: This is in reference to a Veritas Forum at the University of Central Florida where a student asked me, “Can you think of any analogy of the Trinity?” And I said, “Well, yes, in fact I can.” And I began to lay out something that I had used in the book Philosophical Foundations for a Christian Worldview in the chapter on the Trinity. But when you provide an illustration or an analogy, if you've captured the doctrine of the Trinity correctly then it would be to posit some entity that would be analogous to God in his tri-personal being. I mentioned the analogy of a woman who had three different roles earlier: she is a wife, mother and teacher. Rather, God is one God, and three persons. That is a question that needs to be settled philosophically, and in doing that one will, as I say, be guided by perfect being theology. [3] Paul says, this is a mystery which is now made known by God. But it is not an accurate explanation of the Triune God because it portrays Modalism. It helps us to conceptually model the Trinity in such a way as to see that this doctrine is perfectly logically coherent and comprehensible. H 2 O can exist in three forms: liquid, gas and solid. What is a good analogy for the trinity? So ultimately Cerberus, though it gets you some direction toward the Trinity, it ultimately falls short. I think Dr. White is quite right, that the Trinity is unique and there is nothing that you can point to that is a strict analogy to it, or parallel to it. A contemporary analogy for the Trinity may be drawn from quantum physics. These are likewise erroneous or even heretical. hood is pattered (Eph.3:14,15). And I do think the illustration is very helpful in making some progress toward understanding that. We try to fit the trinity into the rational mans’ previously accepted paradigm. That is by no means a perfect analogy. That mythological explanation utterly fails to appreciate the incredible world-changing impact of the person of Jesus of Nazareth on the disciples. And probably the analogy that I find most helpful because I think it's a more biblical analogy in terms of finding union within distinctness. It seems like every time I hear a Christian explaining the doctrine of the trinity, they preface it with a few qualifications about how the trinity can only be understood by faith and that it is beyond all human comprehension and they will never understand it. 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But it helps us to make progress toward understanding certain affirmations of the Trinity. Dr. Craig: No, because that's my own view, the view that you just described. And so what I finally propose is that we need to think of God as a soul, an unembodied mind, endowed with three sets of rational faculties each of which is sufficient for personhood. We can make some sense out of it. 4: 485-501 (2013), p. 493; Willem Elders, Review of Music in Late Medieval Bruges, by Reinhard Strohm, ijdschrift van de Vereniging voor Nederlandse Muziekgeschiedenis 37: 213-19 (1987), p. 214. The triad of mind, knowledge, and love (as seen in humanity) served as an analogy to understand the Trinity. God may not be what you expect. We find triads. Instead it's very clear that what caused this change in the concept of God is the person of Jesus. Dr. Craig responds to criticisms of his recent use of an analogy when describing the Trinity. He does not have three centers of consciousness. In my previous post in this series I discussed how the Son proceeds from the Father. (Again…we’re trying to grasp something that isn’t fully grasp-able.) What is a good analogy for the trinity? This supplementary document discusses the history of Trinitytheories. True, we humans are image bearers but nothing in creation serves as an analogy for the Trinity because the Trinity is a doctrine of special (biblical) revelation not nature or reason. It is only like that because you are the one explaining it and you are overcomplicating it. Is the trinity like H20, or a man who is a father, a husband, and a son? Other bad analogies. 2 – The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are each God. In one egg you have the white, the yoke, and the shell composing one full egg. If water is inadequate, there are a wide array of alternative analogies we can turn to in modern theological parlance. We've got articles, videos and forum discussions that provide answers to all of your test prep, admissions and college search questions. This analogy can be used to show how one can also be three. ===== If I had to pick one analogy, I think I'd pick one that, I think, is implicit in Scripture itself. Now in the Florida Veritas Forum I think I spoke too quickly in saying this is an analogy of the Trinity. Persuasively engage those on such examples of the trinity is a disposer of saints when played together or back to discuss and the list. That is modalism. Water at room temperature is liquid. And what I look at is this illustration of Cerberus, which was this three-headed dog guarding the gates of Hades in Greek mythology, and I press this and adapt it and adjust it in certain ways to try to see if we can make sense of the idea of three persons which are nevertheless one being rather than three beings. Stop overcomplicating everything. They all fall short? Dr. Craig: Yes, we try to make sense of it. Rather it is to help understand certain affirmations about God, for example, that God is tri-personal and yet he's one entity, and I do think we can make progress on understanding that. The problem with this analogy is that an egg yoke is of a very different substance than a shell. It is because they came to believe that Jesus was himself divine, he was God, and yet he wasn't the Father. And there are other things that are part of progressive revelation which are not clear in the Hebrew Bible but which become clear, then, in the revelation brought by Jesus Christ and the New Testament apostles. Then there are the Augustinian analogies for the blessed Trinity, “Augustine reasons that if we can’t catch intellectual sight of the Trinity directly, at least we can see reflections, images, or indications of the Trinity in the created realm, above all in the highest part of human beings (the mind), who are made “in the image and likeness of God” (Augustine Trinity, 231 [VII.4.12]; Genesis 1:26). Dr. Craig: The whole appeal to pagan mythology is just completely wrong-headed. He talks about the mind's ability to remember, to understand, and to will. For example, God's eternity. Kevin Harris: I also want to mention that twice now Dr. White has made intimations that on our podcast we put philosophy over the Word of God. Another good proof-text would be Isaiah 44:6 (and I went into more detail in my article 3 Reasons Atheists Are Afraid To Read Isaiah) which reads, “So said the Lord, the King of Israel and his Redeemer the Lord of Hosts.” Both times the word Lord are used, they replace the word YHWH, the name of God. Kevin Harris: Sure, I guess what I was trying to say, Bill, is that we need to be very much able to give the doctrine of the Trinity as it is revealed in Scripture. Love is therefore as perfect in us as it approximates the perfect sharing that constitutes the Trinity. | Theme by SuperbThemes.Com, Social Issues, Politics & Biblical Ethics, Why Jesus looked and acted like me, not you, Minimizing The Maximally Great Argument For Arminianism, How apologetics bloggers caused the downfall of the United States, Why Christians should apologize for using apologetics. A man who is a father, a son, and a husband is not three distinct persons. Inappropriate image in good examples of trinity of the trinity is either Though you are right in thinking that it isn’t a perfect analogy of the Trinity, we can’t have a perfect analogy as it can’t be possible for us to understand or explain using finite words or images. The good thing about the illustration, though, is it does help to get us thinking about how can you have a tri-personal being? Meaning “traces of the Trinity,” vestigia Trinitatis is all about identifying the Trinitarian underpinnings of a universe spoken into existence by a triune God. Kevin Harris: Dr. Craig, from time to time we not only respond to questions that people send us but we respond to various criticisms that we might encounter on the web or that we receive in various ways. Holy Trinity: Some Analogies to Help Us Comprehend May 28, 2018 by Dave Armstrong C. S. Lewis made a famous analogy of “flatland,” squares, and cubes in his Mere Christianity… Of course, you can use the Cerberus analogy to knock-down specific challenges to the doctrine of the Trinity. I think New Testament scholarship has come to appreciate that Christianity as a movement is rooted in the person of Jesus of Nazareth. A doctrine is a propositional entity; God is a concrete object, so obviously the Trinity isn't identical to a doctrine. And pagan mythology is simply the wrong interpretive context for understanding primitive Christianity. What is a good analogy for the trinity? For us to draw these comparisons only muddies the water. It is impossible for us humans to fully comprehend, or to give a perfect analogy. Trinitarian Analogies & Images •No analogy is perfect, exhaustive, or complete. the analogy to the (on the trinity) by the north african church father augustine he points to the compatibility of unity and diversity in human personality or mind. The mind may still boggle at this notion, at the presentation of three in one. A worm looks up at a man. And that will get you a doctrine of three persons in one being. Obviously he is not both three gods and one god, and obviously he is not both three persons and one person. How can we reduce it down? A worm looks up at a man. When the Scripture, the New Testament, speaks of mysteries it doesn’t mean something above reason or above logic. A triangle is one triangle and three sides. Dr. Craig: I don't see that it's a mystery in the sense of being something that's logically incomprehensible, no. There's no evidence whatsoever of that. The constraints for doing good systematic theology, I think, are first and foremost Scripture, and then secondly what I would call perfect being theology, the notion that God is the greatest conceivable being. •From the Athanasian Creed: “And the catholic faith is this: That we worship one God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity; Neither confounding the persons nor dividing the substance.” Eggs are one, yet comprise yolk, shell and albumen. So we tell them, “Just as a man can be a father, a son, and a husband, so God is the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.” But that comparison is fatal to the trinity. That would be a contradiction. [2] But rather because people who are unsympathetic to the doctrine of the Trinity, who are just looking for something to criticize or to mock, will find it disrespectful and unhelpful to compare God to a dog. They're just truths which have been previously unrevealed. But, when it's heated, it turns into a gas (steam) and, when it's frozen, it turns into a solid (ice). If someone already has an understanding based on the definition and explanation above, then these analogies might help them grasp aspects of the Trinity. according to augustine, the fact that humans are made in the image of god indicates that there should be traces of the trinity … As we appeal to these elements of the world that people know and comprehend, we try to render the trinity relatable. So in this analogy, you have one egg but this one egg is only an egg when it has the yoke, the white and the shell. •Many of our analogies can even lead to unintentional misunderstandings. Kevin Harris: Philosophy helps us to fill in some gaps, though, that perhaps Scripture doesn't specifically address? We simply don’t have any perfect analogy. It may seem like an illogical model of God (although I argued against this in my article Is The Trinity A Logical Model of God? This seems to carry over into theology. I think it may be permissible at this point out that there are other things in the universe that are three in one. Kevin Harris: Is the Trinity, however, a mystery? The Trinity is Like an Egg. Just don't fool yourself into thinking that you've got the Trinity covered. So that when we interpret Scripture we will interpret it in such a way as to magnify and glorify God to the greatest extent. This analogy actually teaches the heresy … Seems to a sound analogy of trinity, and parcel of keeping reason to you do so my only in. In response to hearing of the doctrine of the trinity, people may pose the question, “but how could God be both three and one?” That is a clear contradiction, so how could that be so? I say it doesn't go far enough because even if we adjust the Cerberus story so that we now have not three canine minds, which are one dog, but we invest them with self-consciousness so that we actually have three persons which are one dog, which seems now getting very much closer to the idea of the Trinity, still, the difficulty is when Cerberus dies, when his body dies, it would seem that you have three separate persons – three souls or whatever, three minds – that wouldn't be one being. And that's why I don't like analogies, I don't like to use analogies like the triple point of water, or water being steam and ice and liquid, these sorts of things. Hasker also objects that Leftow’s one–self theory collapses the interpersonal relationships of the members of the Trinity into God’s relating to himself, and suggests that in Leftow’s view, God would enjoy self–love, but not other–love, and so would not be perfect (2009, 161–2, 2012a, 331). And I think we can defeat that objection by giving a possible model of the Trinity which is comprehensible and adequate to the biblical data. Transcript Is There a Good Analogy for the Trinity? Nonetheless, proponents of such t… And then I hear you say that we can go on and try to show the rationale and that it's not contradictory and so on, in defining and describing the Trinity itself. God may be more complicated than a man, or more complicated than what we expect, but we can still understand what the Bible teaches. So the way I see it is that these analogies can help us make progress toward comprehending or understanding the Trinity so that it's not just a mystery or a logical paradox. Kevin Harris: So in wrapping it up today, to address the main topic of this podcast, is the fact that analogies of the Trinity fall short? Just a few notes of caution. We don't find a Trinity in pagan mythology, we just don't. It's talking about something that wasn't previously revealed in the Old Testament but now has been made known, such as the unity of Gentiles and Jews in the body of Christ. We see in Colossians 2:9: However, Jesus is not the Father or the Holy Spirit—see also the ancient Trinity diagram. I just see no reason to think that there should be anything truly analogous to the Trinity. The unitarian or the detractor of the doctrine of the Trinity alleges that this is either a logical contradiction or it's just an incomprehensible doctrine, one that makes no sense at all. Does God's eternity mean that God is infinite throughout all time, or does it mean that he transcends time altogether? Stop desperately shuffling through fallacious analogies. There’s a simple reason they don’t work: The Trinity, as such, isn’t like anything in creation. Rather in Philosophical Foundations for a Christian Worldview what I am doing is trying to make sense out of the doctrine of the Trinity that the notion that there are three persons who are not three beings, but are one being. But that does not mean that you cannot explain what the Bible reveals. We can still understand what the Bible says. Again, this is a lesson for us. We would not expect the worm to instantly understand the man, or the man to be precisely what the worm expects. Get Dr. Craig's newsletter and keep up with RF news and events. And water can have different forms: … Learn what the trinity is, because there is a succinct and simple definition that is easy to understand. Although early Christian theologians speculated in many wayson the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, no one clearly and fully assertedthe doctrine of the Trinity as explained at the top of the main entryuntil around the end of the so-called Arian Controversy. ©2021 Therefore, God Exists Cerberus has three heads, so there are three different minds that can each act, think, and feel independently of each other. I don't think of it as providing analogies for the Trinity. I think it should be pointed out that the trinity is not necessarily a mystery. Also, I would be cautious about using triads in nature, such as solid-liquid-gas, three dimensions, past/present/future as any proof of the Trinity (not th… So the doctrine of the Trinity is clearly rooted in the impact of the person of Jesus of Nazareth upon these early Jewish disciples. It is not perfect (no analogy can be), but it opens a window for us to contemplate the Trinity. the Trinity. It may be counter-intuitive, but we can still grasp it. I think Dr. White is quite right, that the Trinity is unique and there is nothing that you can point to that is a strict analogy to it, or parallel to it. [1] Now in the book Philosophical Foundations I was more careful than I was, unfortunately, in the spontaneous Q&A because I did not present this as an analogy to the Trinity. So I see the constraints on doing theology as being first and foremost Scripture, and then you will interpret Scripture in light of perfect being theology. In … Cerberus is a three-headed dog in Greek mythology. See Chiara Bertoglio, “A Perfect Chord: Trinity in Music, Music in the Trinity,” Religions 4, no. If the Sun is accepted as a correct analogy of the Trinity, then the Trinity becomes tritheism. As John 1:18 says, Jesus is “the only begotten God, in the bosom of [God] the Father.” Therefore, there is one God, who is eternally present in three persons. 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